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Dave Carpentier
12-20-2001, 05:05 PM
I'm new to IS6, but have used IS5 for years. Some of our products are designed to be installed on a W2K server multiple times, either of the same version(level) or of different versions all operating together sharing some common files and services. The advantage of this is that a customer can test a production version while also using a "newer test" version or even older
versions at the same time or have two or more of same versions running. With IS5 I have the script setup to create unique entires in the registry for each version. The uninstallation keys for each installed copy are also unique. When looking at using IS6(event based scripts) I've been stymied by the use of GUID's for the installation as every copy of the same install would use the same GUID.

How do I differentiate each installation so it's unique? Is this even the right question?
Thanks for any info...

Dave

tonoe_cn
12-20-2001, 10:34 PM
project\settings\ Gernnal\new GUID

tw0001
12-20-2001, 11:01 PM
not easy. You can't generate a new GUID at runtime - all the installations are going to be shared, unfortunately, unless you change the GUID manually every time you build.

Dave Carpentier
12-21-2001, 06:29 AM
I need a new GUID at runtime I believe, not at build time! There doesn't seem to be anyway to do this! Anybody have any ideas on now to install multiple copies of the same product and be able to then deinstall just one of the copies or upgrade just one of the copies? I have to believe somebody out there has installations that do just this with IS6(event driven)...

Dave

JacobLevin
12-21-2001, 09:57 AM
Unfortunately you can't install the same product to multiple locations and have them be treated like sepereate products.

We are planning on providing this ability in our next major release of the Professional product.

Dave Carpentier
12-21-2001, 10:21 AM
I assume this will also be an issue for Developer 7.0? (Windows Installer). I have an Eval copy that I am looking at.

JacobLevin
12-21-2001, 10:23 AM
Yes. Unfortunately the Developer 7 product will not be able to create an install with this ability. With that product it is more due to a limitation in the Windows Installer service from Microsoft that prevents you from doing this.

Andy M-S
12-27-2001, 04:33 PM
You can get around the GUID problem without too much trouble. If the software you're installing doesn't have to do anything after a reboot (like registering files or updating "in use" files) then all you need to do is to insert code in OnEnd() to delete the GUID entry.

Of course, that has the nasty side-consequence of blowing away the users' ability to uninstall the software.:mad:

Dave Carpentier
12-27-2001, 09:26 PM
Not having an uninstallation is not an option for our customers. Our installations are complex. They install many COM servers, NT services, start and stop these services, create NT groups and users, register many files, create virtual directories in IIS, determine the level of the multiple installs and point to the correct shared files and install MDAC, MSXML, etc.... Not having an uninstallation would prevent our users from removing a version of our product on their systems they no longer required, not to mention the testing nightmares for our test group this would create!
Not being able to install multiple copies of the same installation in IS6, Developer 7 and Windows Installer prevents our installs from moving to these "newer" technologies. Until InstallShield corrects this in a future release, IS5 will be our main install package for now. I believe Microsoft would also have to "enhance" Windows Installer to allow multiple installs also.

JacobLevin
01-03-2002, 09:21 AM
I'm sorry to hear that neither InstallShield Developer nor InstallShield Professional will be able to suit your needs.

Please keep an eye out for the next version of the InstallShield Professional product ( version 7 ) that should be released in the first half of this year. This product will have the ability to install the same product multiple times with seperate log files, like version 5.x was able to.

Andy M-S
01-03-2002, 10:00 AM
...to get in line for the beta program for this product? I've been using IS products since 3.x, and the changes from one generation to the next (3->5->6) have been rather traumatic, to say the least.

I do recall hearing some IS folks in Schaumberg who promised a group I was in that future changes in IS Professional would be considerably more incremental than they have been in the past.

This would be a Very Good Thing (tm).

JacobLevin
01-03-2002, 10:14 AM
You are right. The moves from IS 3.x to IS 5.x and then to IS 6.x have been complex.

We ARE making a determined effort to make the next version of Professional MUCH easier to upgrade to.

For example there should be NO need to make extensive changes to your script if you are upgrading from IS5.x or 6.x ( i.e. nothing at all like changing from IS5.x based script to an event based 6.x script).

Unfortunately I can't give you a 100% guarantee that you won't have to tweak your script a bit, but the massive redesign and reworking will NOT be necessary.

However there won't be any upgrade path from IS 3.x. This would need a re-work of your script .

Andy M-S
01-03-2002, 10:24 AM
Jacob:

Thanks! At this point, we have no 3.x scripts, and only one that's still in 5.x (customer requirement), so the big thing is being able to move from 6.3x with relatively minor tweaks.

We have one installer that handles up to 34 products(!) and I've just finished a long process of rebuilding it so that we have a mother install (lots 'o lists) that selectively calls the child installers based on what the user selects. Clearly, this is not the sort of thing I'd like to spend a lot of time rewriting, and it may just stay in 6.x for a little while (the mother-child system allows me to handle of the GUID problem, though not as elegantly as I might wish).

OTOH, if 7.x has some compelling new features, we might be persuaded to move in that direction. So what's new?

JacobLevin
01-03-2002, 10:46 AM
What's new?

Okay, I'll try to put on my salesman's hat now :)

1. Updates - Professional 7 will allow you to create both a differential and full update media.

- A differential media would be equivalent to a patch that won't contain all the files for the product. This would restrict you in that you could not change the component hierarchy, but you could add file groups.

- A full update could either update an existing version installed on the system or install the full product. In this case you could modify your component structure.

2. Side-by-Side installs - This was possible in 5.x, but not in 6.x. The ability to have an install that will install as many times on one machine as you want to different locations with seperate uninstall keys.

There will be other features, but those are the big ones that are definitely going to be there that I can think of off the top of my head.

tw0001
01-05-2002, 03:29 PM
It's actually going to be called Professional 7? That's going to be mighty confusing (Developer 7) - I always thought it would be called Professional 6.5 and that would be the last version of Professional.

- is the side-by-side install of ikernel.exe also in the works?

Ted.

JacobLevin
01-05-2002, 05:27 PM
The next version of Professional will be version 7 and from what is planned, it is not the last version of that product either.

The engine for version 7 and up will be only for that version and the engines will not be shared between versions.

For example, Pro 7.00 will have a different and independent engine from PRo 7.01 (assuming that is the next version ).

SamiV, Remedy
01-06-2002, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by JacobLevin
The next version of Professional will be version 7 and from what is planned, it is not the last version of that product either.

The engine for version 7 and up will be only for that version and the engines will not be shared between versions.

For example, Pro 7.00 will have a different and independent engine from PRo 7.01 (assuming that is the next version ).
Jacob, those few "Professional 7" features you've mentioned sound just too good to be true. You've just made a lot of people happy just by announcing those "behaviour changes". There is hope still left in the world. :)

What is bound to create confusion for install developers is the version numbering if there's "Developer 7" and "Professional 7" which are completely different products. Well then again so are Word and Excel, but...

Is there a beta program already for the Professional 7?

SamiV.

JacobLevin
01-07-2002, 09:25 AM
SamiV,

It is very true. The features I mentioned will be in the next version of Professional.

The possible confusion over the version names has been brought up, but we found it to be essentially unavoidable under the circumstances.

I don't know about the beta program right now, but I will be looking into that and since you and another customer on this same group were interested I will try to make sure to let you guys know.

I'm happy to see you like the new features we are bringing into the product :)

JoseMarti
01-07-2002, 04:03 PM
This was the first thread I read when checking out this developer forum. I was impressed with the professionalism and information provided. I hope most of the other threads are like this one.

Kudos!!!