PDA

View Full Version : Standalone Build availability



rchand445
06-05-2008, 10:41 AM
The standalone build module is currently available only for users who purchase the premier edition of Installshield 2009. That was not the case in the past, up until the issuance of Installshield 12.

When Installshield 12 was released, the end user license agreement stated that "users of earlier versions of InstallShield Professional Edition (10, 10.5, 11, and 11.5) are also entitled to use the Standalone Build".

Would owners of legacy Installshield products still have access to use the standalone build module for Installshield 2009? I did not see any references stating as such in the EULA lfor Installshield 2009..

Christopher Painter
06-05-2008, 01:01 PM
I am searching for the download link as well.

TheTraveler
06-05-2008, 04:54 PM
I would like to know as well... Thank you...

Christopher Painter
06-05-2008, 07:40 PM
http://blog.deploymentengineering.com/2008/06/installshield-stand-alone-build.html

I encourage everyone to contact Acresso or leave a comment on my blog and make your feelings known about this.

willstott
06-06-2008, 04:13 AM
Acresso was spun out of Macrovision as a private equity deal and so there's a lot of pressure for them to make money. Unfortunately, its seems that they are focusing on short term profits at the expense of long term relationships.

For example, customers who fell for last week's heavily promoted 10% discount for buying v14 must be feeling pretty sick now that v15 has been announced (unless of course they also bought an expensive maintenance package). Removing the standalone build utility from the standard product is yet another example of short termism by Acresso.

I've been using InstallShield for 20+ years and promote it in my book (VSTS - Better Software Development for Agile Teams, Addison-Wesley, 2007). I would like Acresso to make a real success out of InstallShield, but upon present performance the management seem to have lost their way. Customers should make sure their views are heard. Therefore if you're not happy, write and complain!

willstott
06-06-2008, 04:18 AM
Acresso was spun out of Macrovision as a private equity deal and so there's a lot of pressure for them to make money. Unfortunately, its seems that they are focusing on short term profits at the expense of long term relationships.

For example, customers who fell for last week's heavily promoted 10% discount for buying v14 must be feeling pretty sick now that v15 has been announced (unless of course they also bought an expensive maintenance package). Removing the standalone build utility from the standard product is yet another example of this sort of short termism by Acresso; i.e. let's maximise this quarter's sales even it means losing some customers who might continue buy our product over the next 20 years.

I've been using InstallShield for 20+ years and promote it in my book (VSTS - Better Software Development for Agile Teams, Addison-Wesley, 2007). I would like Acresso to make a real success out of InstallShield, but upon present performance the management seem to have lost their way. Customers should make sure their views are heard. Therefore I echo Christopher Painter's comment: if you're not happy, write and complain!

TheTraveler
06-06-2008, 09:53 AM
I agree with you, but let us be fair about this. Agresso has for the past couple of versions honored the long term customers the ability to download the standalone building portion of the product. It is only to the new customers who only get the professional version that they are not supplying it to and only supplying it to the premier version of the product. So this thread here is asking the question, "Is Agresso still going to honor the past agreement with its long term customers with the new version of Install Shield?"

Christopher Painter
06-06-2008, 11:40 AM
It's been suggested by a coworker that I speak to in house counsel regarding the terms of our maintenance agreement. I'm hoping to not have to go down that road. It seems that we had to do that when IBM bought BuildForge and the results were very favorable.

JeffGreenwald
06-06-2008, 02:13 PM
When InstallShield 12 was released in June 2006, it was announced that the Standalone Build would be packaged only with the InstallShield Premier Edition. In preparation for that release, we recognized that some users may need additional time to upgrade to the Premier Edition. Therefore, accommodations were made for a certain subset of the InstallShield 12 Professional users, granting them access to the InstallShield 12 Standalone Build module as part of that release. Now that two years have passed, and multiple releases have entered the market, the transition is being completed.


The Standalone Build functionality continues to be packaged with the Premier Edition in InstallShield 2009. The Standalone Build module can coexist with other versions of InstallShield, and you can run it from the command line. Each full license of InstallShield Premier Edition includes 10 Standalone Build modules.

Thanks,

Christopher Painter
06-06-2008, 02:16 PM
Jeff-

The huge, and I mean huge problem I have with this is that we prepaid our maintenance fees in good faith that Acresso would fulfill their end of the bargain. Instead you've taken the position that functionality can be taken away and expect us to spend even more money to get it back.

This is a huge black eye for Acresso and it will not go unnoticed by your customers.

rchand445
06-06-2008, 05:44 PM
When InstallShield 12 was released in June 2006, it was announced that the Standalone Build would be packaged only with the InstallShield Premier Edition. In preparation for that release, we recognized that some users may need additional time to upgrade to the Premier Edition. Therefore, accommodations were made for a certain subset of the InstallShield 12 Professional users, granting them access to the InstallShield 12 Standalone Build module as part of that release. Now that two years have passed, and multiple releases have entered the market, the transition is being completed.


The Standalone Build functionality continues to be packaged with the Premier Edition in InstallShield 2009. The Standalone Build module can coexist with other versions of InstallShield, and you can run it from the command line. Each full license of InstallShield Premier Edition includes 10 Standalone Build modules.

Thanks,


In effect, two years ago you downgraded the product to a number of long term users who held maintenance contracts. This feature used to be freely available as part of the purchase of Installshield. A vast number of us built automated build processes which depend on the standalone build module. Then you issue Installshield 12 and decide to force us to spend $2000 extra for the same functionality? I'm sorry, but something is wrong with this thinking. There are other products on the market which allow command line builds which are far less expensive than this offering.

Christopher Painter
06-06-2008, 06:03 PM
One that I'm aware of is free, open source, and rapidly reaching a point where it'll be a viable alternative. Now doesn't strike me as a good time to be upsetting the user community.

Qingsong
06-06-2008, 06:32 PM
I am long time InstallShield user since IS3. But I am getting more and more parionoid. Each year we spend almost $1000 just for some functions which have been implemented by community or my own customization. SAB is only the feature which keeps me using IS.

I am currently using IS 2008 professional. There is no patches since its release even though there are a lot of issues, which has been fixed in 2009.

Only hot fix released for IS 2008 is the licensing registration. :mad:

The technical support is really slow repsonse for the feature/fix requests. One of the example is .NET 2.0 SP1 release. It took me less then 30 mintues to create a new .NET 2.0 SP1 pre-requisite. I do not understand why IS can not release/update this run-time officially.

Bottom line: If there is no SAB in IS 2009 professional, I will definitely not upgrade and will begin to looking for other tools instead.

Please re-consider spending $2000 just for SAB feature, which should be the standard feature anyway.

:mad: :mad:

rchand445
06-06-2008, 09:10 PM
Business Definition for: Customer Relations

The approach of an organization to winning and retaining customers.
The most critical activity of any organization wishing to stay in business
is its approach to dealing with its customers. Putting customers at the center
of all activities is seen by many as an integral part of quality, pricing, and product differentiation.
On one level, customer relations means keeping customers fully informed, turning complaints into opportunities,
and genuinely listening to customers
- - http://dictionary.bnet.com/definition/customer+relations.html

Christopher Painter
06-07-2008, 08:24 AM
Bottom line: If there is no SAB in IS 2009 professional, I will definitely not upgrade and will begin to looking for other tools instead.

I agree. The problem is for maintenance subscribers who put their faith in InstallShield and pre-paid for the upgrade. The result is a meaningless ugrade since you there is no point in rolling out IS2009 if you can't roll it out to your build farm also.

nitsev
06-09-2008, 03:19 AM
When InstallShield 12 was released in June 2006, it was announced that the Standalone Build would be packaged only with the InstallShield Premier Edition. In preparation for that release, we recognized that some users may need additional time to upgrade to the Premier Edition. Therefore, accommodations were made for a certain subset of the InstallShield 12 Professional users, granting them access to the InstallShield 12 Standalone Build module as part of that release. Now that two years have passed, and multiple releases have entered the market, the transition is being completed.


Jeff,

You just don't get it. You don't REMOVE functionality from a product with an upgrade. If the SAB had been in the Premier Edition to begin with it would have been fine, but you decided to simply move it without any notice to get more money from your most loyal users. There is nothing in the Premier Edition that I need (multi-language support, repositories etc.) but a SAB is crucial for any install software and should not require the Premier Edition (which also was your original decision with IS 12). The software and maintenance fees are expensive as it is. If you cannot make enough money enough from this without treating your loyal customers like this you're in the wrong business.

LanceRas
06-09-2008, 12:47 PM
I've had features removed with upgrades before. Many times a "better way" was found to do something, so they eliminated the other way.

While I would just assume being able to have the license for standalone, I understand Acresso's position (I don't have to like it). I just think things could have been made a bit clearer when a decision was made to finally pull the plug for the pro. Even better would be a limited promotion for those with pro to move up "due to the elimination of the standalone".

nitsev
06-10-2008, 02:00 AM
I've had features removed with upgrades before. Many times a "better way" was found to do something, so they eliminated the other way.

While I would just assume being able to have the license for standalone, I understand Acresso's position (I don't have to like it). I just think things could have been made a bit clearer when a decision was made to finally pull the plug for the pro. Even better would be a limited promotion for those with pro to move up "due to the elimination of the standalone".

If you can think of a "better way" to do a standalone build without the SAB please share it with the community. They removed functionality without replacing it or notifying existing customers. They want all Pro users to move to the Premier edition although many users don't want or need the few extra features in the Premier edition, plus the BIG extra price tag. I for one can definitely NOT understand Acressos decision. This will hurt their business way more than leaving the SAB in the Pro edition. Remember, this would only apply for existing customers with valid maintenance agreements. New customers would have to buy the Premier Edition the get the SAB anyway.

LanceRas
06-10-2008, 05:48 PM
nitsev,

I certainly don't work for or necessarily agree with how things were done by Acresso/Macrovision.

I will say this. They didn't advertise that IS2009 Pro would have SAB nor did they promise that pre-IS2009 Pro customers would have SAB. If they did, I didn't see it.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on point of view), the marketing department keeps pretty mum about features (or lack of) for the upcoming version until it pretty much is released. It's not like several companies which announce a new product 1-3 months ahead of time and announce some or all of the new goodies or clarify things that change like SAB.

In terms of SAB... I've only tried using it for a while and it doesn't fit my model needs. Having Pro and then a quality utility like FinalBuilder work with it is all I need.

In terms of maintenance agreements, I don't really see how that is relevant, unless it names the SAB as part of the agreement seperatly. My Pro maintenance agreement lets me call support and gets me any Pro edition of IS that comes out, features inclusive. Since IS2009 Pro doesn't feature SAB, then that I don't see how interpretation of the support maintenance states that I continue with SAB.

Don't get me wrong. I would just assume to get all the features I possibly can with my agreements.

It's just that the only fault I see is maybe Acresso/Macrovision not making more of an effort to clarify its position on the SAB and that at worst, communication should have been made to the existing maintenance holders that the SAB which was previously grandfathered in, is now officially off the table. This also should have been done within a reasonable time from when the decision to remove the SAB to prevent the appearance of bait and switch tacticts for those who were up for renewel recently.

Christopher Painter
06-10-2008, 08:19 PM
Using a tool like FinalBuilder/FinalBuilderServer/MSBuild/NAnt/TFS TeamBuild/CruiseControl et al ( trust me, I've used all of them ) doesn't eliminate the need for the stand alone build engine. Put simply, production builds should not be performed on a developers box. They should be performed on a build machine and their should likely be several build boxes in your farm for performance and availability purposes. Kinda like setting up a RAID instead of a single drive.

Without the SAB, you'd have to have a fully licensed copy of IS Pro for each one of those build agents. That is cost prohibitive. With the stand alone build you are covered for 10 machines per entitlement. That's ample.

Now I don't believe that SAB should EVER come off the table for maintenance customers who stay current. The fact of the matter is at some point they paid money for a product and pre-paid ( over and over ) for upgrades. These are the most committed customers. To take a critical feature out of their tier and move it into a higher tier is clearly bad customer service and quite possibly violates the maintenance agreement.

LanceRas
06-11-2008, 12:10 AM
Chris,

My Installshield install is only on a machine that does builds or doing development in terms of the Installshield development. I do agree with you in terms of application development. If you want to isolate even from the development of the installers, than I can see your point, although I don't necessarily follow it.

I think the main thing we all seem to agree on is that the decision pertaining to the SAB and the pro edition for IS2009 has not cast a light favorably to Acresso as the new company in charge to their regular customers. It just didn't make good PR. New customers or those not on maintenance, it's moot.

I go back to my statement in that knowing that this would probably ruffle feathers, there should have been notification to maintenance holders at the pro level regarding this change prior to release. This would not have divulged anything planned for IS2009.

I'd have to look more closely to the maintenance agreement. So far, looking back through the several years being on maintenance (since IS X, I believe), I'm just not seeing where SAB is named specifically or that it is permanently grandfathered in.

I'm sure you're probably looking at it a lot harder, as your level of usage and development is in a different league than me.

And again, don't get me wrong. I'm not rooting for IS to kill SAB for Pro. It's just that I'm not seeing any foul play... just not a very popular decision and poor management of handling this decision.

nitsev
06-11-2008, 01:24 AM
The bottom line is that SAB was included to begin with and as Chris points
out, we have bought and paid for it over and over again through the years. You buy maintenance to be updated with the latest technologies and protect your investment, not to have the software crippled and get reduced functionality.
What other features can we expect Acresso to remove for the next release? The possibility of using custom actions, prerequisites, system search?

You don't treat your loyal customers this way, period.

TheTraveler
06-11-2008, 10:20 AM
Hello Everyone,

Something that should also be pointed out. The Stand Alone Build (SAB) was introduced in the Install Shield (IS) Professional tier and it was also offered in the Premier edition of IS. I agree with Chris that builds should not be on a developers box. This is done for several reasons which has enough discussion to be in its own thread and I'm not going to discuss them here. Simply put, it falls under best practices for developing teams. Chris also mentions that the licenses states you can install it multiple times onto several build machines. Why not limit the license to only allow one installation of the SAB for the professional edition who fall into the grandfather clause?

I should also point out some history of actions like this by other companies. Does anyone remember Oracle? They too revamped their licensing of their database product. So much so that it made it too expensive for software developers to package their product with it. So what did these developers do? The moved and/or migrated over to using Microsoft SQL Server and got rid of Oracle. Just like now, a lot of people understand the reasons why they did it and at the same time, it wasn't cost effective for them to continually use the product. Could history repeat itself? I hope not. I like Install Shield and I would recommend it to anyone and everyone. So yes, I'm a loyal customer and I would like to remain so.

LanceRas
06-11-2008, 08:09 PM
I think what you bring up, having a single license for the SAB for those in the grandfathered period, could be a reasonable compromise.

Then again. We're all here sitting in the bleachers.

Christopher Painter
06-11-2008, 10:21 PM
I had reason to believe that this issue was close to be resolved but I've yet to hear the announcement.

willstott
06-12-2008, 03:07 AM
I completely agree with Christopher: Production (release) candidate builds need to be done in a controlled Build & Test Environment. Even if you're working in a team of one you should still have a separate PC for making your release builds. You also need to automate the build process in order to get consistent results, i.e. eliminate all manual steps as they might be missed or done incorrectly. Therefore taking any sort of professional approach to software development means you must have the ability to compile everything from the command line; i.e. standalone build. This includes source code, help files, and of course the install program.

I take issue with Acresso using the word 'Pro' on a product that doesn't have standalone build functionality. By all means call it 'InstallShield Amateur', but not 'InstallShield Pro' ;-) Without SAB it's simply not a tool that any self-respecting professional would want to use. This leads me to question how much Acresso marketing people understand about the nature of software development.

What Acresso should be doing is encouraging people to use SAB not just because it's the right thing to do, but also because it will result in greater sales revenue for very little extra development investment. The increase in sales will come from keeping their customers happy and so being able to push things like their team based 'InstallShield Colaboration' product (which I understand is selling badly). The small development investment arises because SAB cannot be anything more than InstallShield without the GUI layer; i.e. a subset of the product they already produce.

I would respectfully suggest Acresso accept most teams will buy just one copy of either 'Pro' or 'Premier' and will expect to get SAB bundled into the package. Instead of bullying customers to buy an upgrade to 'Premier' they should instead concentrate on getting the rest of the team to buy 'InstallShield Collaboration'. This is where their real market potential lies and encouraging people to use SAB must be seen as a key stepping stone to cracking it. It's simply a case of getting your customers interested in better software development practices (i.e. using SAB) then selling them additional tools (i.e. Collaboration) to support their efforts. How's that for a marketing strategy?

Will

TheTraveler
06-12-2008, 11:47 AM
When you talked about Install Shield (IS) Amateur product, they actually have that. It is called Install Shield Express and it rightfully doesn't have a Stand Alone Building (SAB) feature. It has been that way since the beginning of the IS Express product line. As a marketing strategy, I would try to encourage IS Express customers to move to the Professional version. Then use the sales pitch of using best practices in using the SAB. Not to mention the fact that you can do a whole lot more with the IS Professional platform then with the Express version. What should also be mentioned is the fact that there are a whole lot of Installation Developers in this community that are more than willing to help with support, sample code, and their experience.

How is that for a marketing plan???

Qingsong
06-13-2008, 11:56 AM
I had reason to believe that this issue was close to be resolved but I've yet to hear the announcement.

I am waiting for their official announcement as well.

If there is SAB in Pro, I will upgrade my 2008 to 2009. Otherwise, I have to move away for the new functionalities.

slowhand
06-18-2008, 09:38 AM
I am waiting for their official announcement as well.

If there is SAB in Pro, I will upgrade my 2008 to 2009. Otherwise, I have to move away for the new functionalities.

Same situation for me.
Our management is not willing to pay the money for the upgrade to the premier version. We use InstallShield since Version 10.5, and paying 1000 bucks for a new version with only a handful new features was hard, but that takes the biscuit.

Although switching to an alternative is also time and money consuming, what else can we do? Maybe in installShield 2010 the next features is removed from the Pro Edition....

nitsev
06-18-2008, 09:53 AM
I talked to my sales resp. today and according to him there are no plans to include SAB in Pro. It is permanently moved to Premier so your options are to switch tool or upgrade. For us, upgrading to Premier and updating the maintenance agreement is almost €3000. Of course the yearly maintenance fee is also higher after that.

NAndre
06-18-2008, 10:59 AM
Hello, I don't understand this company.
They remove an important feature from a professional software.
A premium software is a special edition, including all features.
An express software is a low level software, this is okay without SAB, and the yahoo toolbar support.
But I don't understand, with the professional software edition I get the
"Value Added Services --> yahoo toolbar", which I never will use as honest an reliable software devoloper, and I lose a "professional" feature?
It's not fun, it is foul play!

It is an amateur edition, not a professional edition.

I hope I get time in my company, to search for a better product.
Have anybody any idea?

Best regards
André

brianmurphy
06-19-2008, 02:58 AM
This, quite frankly, is ridiculous and has prompted me to come out of a four year lurking stint to agree with the posters above. SAB is a critical feature and essential to any build system. Dealing with Installshield's many "quirks" these last few years has been a barely tolerable part of my working day but this downgrading is cynical and the last straw. I've just cancelled an upgrade for 3 Pro licenses while I try identify alternatives. If we can get SAB then ok but otherwise no deal Acresso.

Christopher Painter
06-19-2008, 08:46 AM
I talked to my sales resp. today and according to him there are no plans to include SAB in Pro. It is permanently moved to Premier so your options are to switch tool or upgrade. For us, upgrading to Premier and updating the maintenance agreement is almost €3000. Of course the yearly maintenance fee is also higher after that.

It's interesting that you mention that. Two weeks ago I had an hour long back channel conversation with someone in management at Acresso and I was told that plans were in the work to address this issue. I gave this person the professional courtesy of keeping the discussion confidential while they executed a plan.

In those two weeks, I've seen absolutely no communication or execution of a change in policy and I'm starting to believe that I was misled in order to keep me silent.

JeffGreenwald
06-19-2008, 06:42 PM
We recognize that their may have been some confusion regarding the availability of the Standalone build with the release of InstallShield 2009. To assist our longtime loyal customers in this transition, we are granting access to the Standalone build functionality under the following criteria. Specifically, InstallShield 2008 Professional customers on active maintenance who also licensed InstallShield Professional 10.x or InstallShield Professional 11.x will be granted access to the Standalone build functionality.

For future releases of InstallShield, the Standalone Build functionality will continue to be packaged exclusively with the Premier Edition as announced with the release of InstallShield 12 in 2006. InstallShield Professional customers looking to leverage the Standalone Build module will need to upgrade to the InstallShield Premier edition. Each full license of InstallShield Premier Edition includes 10 Standalone Build modules.

Efforts are currently underway to update the Standalone build installer to support the model described above. Additional information will be posted to this community once these efforts are completed.

Thanks,
Jeff Greenwald
Director, Product Management

LanceRas
06-20-2008, 01:14 PM
Thank you Jeff.

I think this gesture will help get Acresso off on the right foot in the minds of long time maintenance agreement holders.

I think this serves (along with product details for IS2010 when released) as pretty much end of the line notice to all us long timers with pro versions on maintenance and allows us to make the difinitive choice to either continue our agreement, upgrade ONE license to Premier, stay with IS2009 or look elsewhere.

MNSwiftOne
06-30-2008, 05:22 PM
without it - I wasted 4 hours this morning.
We had the 2008 standalone installed on the build machine - 2009 - and this feed stated we would not get it - so I installed 2009 Professional on our BUILD machine.

We only have one build machine - and using the standalone on the build machine permitted us to keep it clean as debugging could be done elsewhere
.
Last Friday I had to debug an installer failure - was not working just right - eventually installed our product on the Build machine - re-writing the 'Registry' entries for registered (licensed) dll files. Yes, these would in theory get reset when uninstalled - but portions of our installer script manually call reg32 to register files - it was written long ago and slowly updated by me and others over many years... but very, very large and not all parts are fixed.
I had to spend another 1/2 hour today cleaning up the build machine, restoring database files, uninstalling SQL Server etc. that were modified when the product installed.

Yes - we are legacy - so after contacting my sales support rep, I recieved a link to the standalone and have resolved this problem.

Jeff - PLEASE REMEMBER - if, as you state will happen, with InstallShield 2010 Professional finally providing no standalone install builder... I would rather redirect our company to a new installer medium than try and come up with a solution like the one I have had for the last weeks (Debug for 6 hours, restore an hour, make a build an hour) and repeat that sequence daily for weeks when it should not be necessary...
Also, our company does not have the financial resources to upgrade to Premier (Almost did not make this renewal - with this market - think about it!), and waiting weeks each new InstallShield release for enough people to complain before management decides to release the standalone to Pro users - is very aggrevating...
We have been using Installshield here since version 7 or 8 I think...

Your sales rep suggested I post my concerns here - and that others should also post if this affects them so management will see how many are affected... (and like me who was not going to post)...

My suggestion - Make the standalone part of Professional as it was before.
Come out with another version without standalone with the limited features you currently want professional to have... and thus - keep the Professional people on Professional... call the new one something like 'Small Business Edition' or 'Limited Pro Edition'...

remember 400 customers * less profit each is often more than 100 customers * more profit each... look at the online winners - selling less than everyone else - their quantity in sales far exceed anyone - thus their profit is also greater... (does management need a marketing class)?

Christopher Painter
07-02-2008, 11:14 AM
Efforts are currently underway to update the Standalone build installer to support the model described above. Additional information will be posted to this community once these efforts are completed.


Is there an update on this release? I have a ticket open with support and they keep trying to close my ticket since they haven't heard from me instead of the other way around.

JeffGreenwald
07-02-2008, 05:40 PM
The Standalone Build installer has been updated and is now available for InstallShield 2009 Professional customers under the following criteria: InstallShield 2008 Professional customers on active (paid) maintenance who also licensed InstallShield Professional 10.x or InstallShield Professional 11.x will be granted access to the Standalone Build functionality. To obtain access to the InstallShield 2009 Standalone Build installer or if you have any questions regarding your access to the Standalone Build functionality please contact your Acresso account representative.

North America: 800-809-5659
EMEA: +44 (0) 870 873 6300
APAC: +81 3 4530 0342
Or
Contact Sales Online - http://www.acresso.com/company/contact_us.htm?link_id=relatedLinks

Lyle Salam
07-21-2008, 12:39 PM
Jeff, I am confused.

As a customer since 5.5 of Prof. with Silver maint contract for our one development seat, I was thrilled to finally see the SAB feature show up several years ago.

Am I understanding that with 2010, it will not be available for grandfathered support contracts ? Or if it is, it will be limited in some way to less than 10 build seats ?

Perhaps the SAB needs to be packaged and licensed independently.
It can be provided free to those that "purchased" it as part of IS Prof at the point that it was introduced years back, as a new customer, or via a maint. contract. To new customers they can purchase it as an add on to prof. or buy premium which can include it.

Lyle Salam
07-21-2008, 12:41 PM
Jeff, I am confused.

As a customer since 5.5 of Prof. with Silver maint contract for our one development seat, I was thrilled to finally see the SAB feature show up several years ago.

Am I understanding that with 2010, it will not be available for grandfathered support contracts ? Or if it is, it will be limited in some way to less than 10 build seats ?

Perhaps the SAB needs to be packaged and licensed independently.
It can be provided free to those that "purchased" it as part of IS Prof at the point that it was introduced years back, as a new customer, or via a maint. contract. To new customers they can purchase it as an add on to prof. or buy premium which can include it.

LanceRas
07-22-2008, 06:01 PM
From what I've been reading between the lines, Lyle, is that they decided to take away the SAB for the Pro people, but then made the decision (I think because of licensing terminology) for those on maintenance to still have access to it.

A decision recently was made to finally pull the plug for Pro customers. While the quality of that decision could be ( and was) debated, the decision was made, none the less. Acresso made the decision to reinstate for one final time, the SAB for maintenance people mainly (IMHO) because of the fact that this was not made very clear and in a timely manner so that those on maintenance can factor that into their buying decision to renew.

I think this was a good faith effort by Acresso to appease those on maintenance. And at this point, anyone who's remains on maintenance with the Pro edition has been pretty much "put on notice" if you will that this is the end of the road. And like you said.... "Grampa is dead"... so thats all folks.