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neal007
03-28-2006, 09:32 AM
The Visual J# prereq is going to be a major issue IMHO! What if I choose NO? Will install fail? Is Visual J# required to use IS 12? I personally don't use it, never will, why do I have to install it? If it is required, can I just click once to agree then let silent installs occur? Lot's of dialog interaction to get this installed or even get up to the IS 12 installation welcome.

One thing that I have yet to see improved with IS since long ago is the persistance of the Program Options (Tools...Options). Why they cannot be carried forward between installations or even reinstall of the same product. Many are the same preferences as well as the default location for projects, I don't want to have to set this every time.

Christopher Painter
03-28-2006, 10:01 AM
I installed on a clean Windows 2000 SP4 Workstation on a network isolated from the internet. The only prereq I had to hunt down was MSI 3.1. The bootstrapper technically asked for WI-KB893803.x86 but I gave it 893803-v2-x86 instead.

I said no to J# and .Net 2.0 and it seemed to install cleanly. I imagine if I wanted to play with Colloboration and VisualStudio integration I would have to install those pieces.

I also am not playing with any components that are assemblies so I'm sure at some point I'll be bitten for not having the .Net framework installed, but otherwise all is well with what I'm doing so far.

neal007
03-28-2006, 10:11 AM
I didn't get the impression VJ# was optional, if I was displayed this information I would have skipped it.

Mike Marino
03-28-2006, 11:48 AM
It depends on your machine configuration.

J# is required for our Collaboration support.

For our RTM we are going to remove J# 1.0 from the prereqs.

The issue is slightly complex...but here is the issue:

When running under Visual Studio 2002 (our VSIP support) our code needs to run under .Net 1.0. When running under VS 2003, our code needs to run under .Net 1.1, and when running under VS 2005, our code needs to run under .Net 2.0. These appear to be limitations of Visual Studio integration.

Now here comes the fun. J# is tied to the version of .Net the product is running under. So, we need to install the version of J# to match whatever version of .Net you will be running our product under.

So if you have VS 2002, 2003 and 2005 installed...it is possible we will have to install 3 versions of J#.

The way we are installing J# 2.0, you have an option to not install. J#1.0 and J# 1.1 do not give options to no install.

Thus if your system has either .Net 1.0, or .Net 1.1 you will be required to install a matching version of J#.

I can post the registry keys we look for if you want to by pass this.

Hope this helps.

neal007
03-28-2006, 11:53 AM
J# is required for our Collaboration support.

So wouldn't the J# prompts come after OnFirstUI, in other words, shouldn't you check to see if I am installing the Collab support BEFORE you require me to install J#?

I don't know what collab support is, not sure I need it, so if I elected NOT to install it, this would also prevent me from seeing J# installation prompts further confusing me.

My $.02.

Mike Marino
03-28-2006, 12:03 PM
J# 1.0 and 1.1 is installed as a Setup Prerequisite.

Setup Prerequisirtes are run as part of the bootstrap, so our main install is not aware of them.

I will see if there is a clean way for us to make these optional.

Thanks for the feedback.

Christopher Painter
04-19-2006, 09:47 AM
I've had experience with these kinds of problems. I've actually written a full bootstrapper using a basic MSI. It serves as a boostrapper for 10 different products by using release flags and distributed merge modules. I've created a replacement to launchconditions that adds the ability to display multiple errors at once, control the ordering of the errors and to also display warning messages. I also implemented a "featureconstraints" concept where a custom table teaches the custom setup dialog which features require the other features. MSI is then used to cache the package files for source resilency and imeediate execution custom actions in the UI sequence after Execute are used to shell out to the othe packages. The project is not registered with MSI so it doesnt technically install features or components and never shows up as an installed app. It gives me really good control over how handle bootstrapper implementation in a product line development environment without having to write alot of plumbing.

neal007
04-21-2006, 05:13 PM
I just installed Beta 2 to my main dev machine (gulp) and so far so good. I haven't run it yet and I'm getting ready to do .NET CF 2 testing. I'm curious if it's going to suppor the new mobile2market signing required for Windows Mobile 5 and smartphone as well.

A few more comments on the install.

The Finish dialog had a checkbox to launch IS 12 but a reboot was required. I suggest modifying the logic to NOT show this checkbox if a reboot is required.

Another bit of feedback is...Windows Vista is coming, you're supporting it, and it's the era of "the new look." Your installer GUI is due for a new look! Seeing even the basic MSI installer look of Beta 2 was saddening. We need our installers to shine, we depend on you, and the era of this crazy skin customization kit that I never have gotten to work, needs to be replaced with a newer/better system. Then again, if you really spiff up your GUI, we don't need skins!

Christopher Painter
04-21-2006, 06:13 PM
You mentioned Basic MSI which by default doesn't use any type of external UI handler. That said, what could IS do to improve the appearance? It seems like any change to the look and feel to the controls and dialog would have to be done by Microsoft.

neal007
04-21-2006, 06:18 PM
Well, if IS wants to put a wrapper/skin around it like the skin chooser in the Dialogs area, that would be fine, something unique! Developer Express built their own installer, they've always been great at installations. Download their latest DXperience (.NET Suite) from www.devexpress.com and check out their installer. IMHO, the installer look is boring and getting old! It's time for something new, snazzy, and unique to IS.

ChrisPage
04-24-2006, 10:00 AM
Neil,

Thanks for the input. We certainly plan to update the "look and feel" at some point in the future, although I can't give you a specific timeframe yet.

Thanks,
Chris

SherylSikora
04-24-2006, 12:46 PM
The Finish dialog had a checkbox to launch IS 12 but a reboot was required. I suggest modifying the logic to NOT show this checkbox if a reboot is required.


Neal,
Could you tell me what OS you saw this behavior on? I have this checkbox conditioned in the install to check for every MSI and OS reboot property that I am aware of, so I will try to dig a little deeper on this and see what is going on.

Thanks for your feedback.

neal007
04-24-2006, 12:58 PM
WinXP Pro SP.LATEST with all the latest Windows Updates

neal007
04-28-2006, 04:35 PM
Neal,
Could you tell me what OS you saw this behavior on? I have this checkbox conditioned in the install to check for every MSI and OS reboot property that I am aware of, so I will try to dig a little deeper on this and see what is going on.

Thanks for your feedback.

In today's programming world, I'd like to see a single property I can check such as "IsRebootRequired" in my InstallScript. That way I could also have a checkbox to launch my app at the end of the install if it was this easy to ensure a reboot would not be required. I'm interested in "the code" required to check to see if a reboot is required or not, so I can implement the very same functionality in my IS MSI apps.

Christopher Painter
04-28-2006, 04:45 PM
Have you looked at the Reboot help topics in the MSI SDK? Some things you might find interesting.....

BOOL = MsiGetMode( hMSI, MSIRUNMODE_REBOOTATEND )

ReplacedInUseFiles property

PendingFileRenameOperations registry value

msiexec exit code 3010

neal007
04-28-2006, 04:48 PM
I have this checkbox conditioned in the install to check for every MSI and OS reboot property that I am aware of

From what Sheryl said (above) it sounded like a lot of code/work that I would hope IS could do for us and return in a property, aka R.A.D.

Christopher Painter
04-28-2006, 04:56 PM
What she said was that she's already checking all the ones that I mentioned. I don't know about InstallScript MSI and it's external UI handler, but in Basic MSI you put a controlcondition on the checkbox to make it invisible if a reboot is needed.

Ramose
05-09-2006, 04:59 PM
I also had the same thing happen after installing the beta the finish dialog has the checked check box run is12 and clicking finish got me the reboot message and this was on a win2k sp4 with all the latest patches.