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brian.webb
11-30-2005, 06:16 PM
It's really unfortunate that Macrovision has lagged behind. Installshield corp from what I remember used to release new technology right along with everyone else. Since a salesperson that I talked to said "we're not releasing .Net 2.0 in Express to get people to upgrade to the pro version", I decided that they're no longer a company focused on software, they're focused on $$. This forced me to find an alternative.

For those of you that are like us that can't wait for them to post some software that will install .Net 2.0 (or even give advice on how to do so), try Advanced Installer (http://www.advancedinstaller.com/). It took me about a half day to convert my installshield express project but it's 100%. Some things are different, some better, but the bottom line is that it works. They're like Installshield used to be: answering questions on the groups and posting fixes ASAP. Good company.

Farewell Macrovision!

MartinMarkevics
11-30-2005, 06:39 PM
Hi Brian,

Perhaps there was some sort of misunderstanding... The statement about not releasing an Express version with .NET 2.0 support to encourage upgrades is totally innacurate. The next version of Express will in fact have .NET 2.0 support. We are actively working on that as we speak.

brian.webb
11-30-2005, 06:49 PM
<totally innacurate> That's nice to know. I was shocked and very displeased when your saleseperson said that, they then tried to get me to upgrade to the Pro version.

<actively working> Thanks! This is an example of what I'm talking about. I (and many others) have posted questions about when this would come out. My other post had a reply from Macrovision to contact sales (which led to the discussion above).

We're all developers and we have schedules and deadlines. No one from Macrovision will say anything. Your post is the first that I've heard that Macrovision is even working on something.

Rene_Elizondo
12-01-2005, 12:06 AM
Perhaps there was some sort of misunderstanding... The statement about not releasing an Express version with .NET 2.0 support to encourage upgrades is totally innacurate.

Come on, you guys don't know when to stop do you? Let’s just think about this for a second OK. Didn't the whole world know about 2 years ago that .Net 2 was going to be out? Does it really take that long to include this feature in your products? Why weren’t beta version with .Net 2 available 6 months ago? Why do so many other companies already provide this but Macrovision does not? Are you guys not on the ball?

And please, why do Install Shield Express have to wait so much longer to get the updates? Aren't all version of Install shield the same except that features are locked depending on the version? (At least that’s what I was told). It is perfectly obvious that Macrovision is hoping to sale a couple of more Pro version to the people using Express that are desperate to have .Net 2 support or to new people wanting to buy a new products, give me a break.



The next version of Express will in fact have .NET 2.0 support. We are actively working on that as we speak.

If I was a betting man I would say it’s already ready and Macrovision is just making lame excuses to delay it.

Unfortunately for Macrovision, turns out that Microsoft is not yet shipping the VS 2005 so you guys are going to have to stretch purposely delaying the new version of Express a couple of more months if you want to make that extra mula. Many people will be pissed but hey, I am sure Macrovision will indeed make some extra money and that is the bottom line isn’t it?

MartinMarkevics
12-01-2005, 11:52 AM
In an ideal world with unlimited resources, we could ship just about anything, anytime. That's not always the case though. There are no doubt marketing and sales considerations about the timing of each release. I won't argue that point. However, there are other considerations as well.

I, as a technical person, can tell you firsthand what we are currently working on probably better than most others. Having said that, we do work closely with partners to make sure we deliver support for things like .NET 2.0 in a timely manner and we have had this on our radar for some time.

One other thing... you mentioned that VS 2005 is not currently shipping. I just wanted to correct that point that it did recently RTM so it is in fact avaialable now. The server pieces of Team System, I believe, are what will be avaialable in a few months.

Rene_Elizondo
12-01-2005, 04:14 PM
Thanks Martin, I am sure that as developers, you guys want nothing more than creating a great product and make it available as soon as possible. I am sure that whatever is going on in the Marketing area of Macrovision is beyond the developer control.

By the way, we ordered VS 2005 around 2 weeks ago form Microsoft and we still have not received it. I think that if you have the MSDN subscription you can get it right now but not if you buy it from the usual places. I read somewhere that Microsoft will begin shipping this right around Today (at least in the US), they might as well had name this thing VS 2006!!

Thanks.

KennethMoss
12-07-2005, 03:30 AM
I downloaded and installed VS.NET 2005 Professional on 10/28 with my MSDN subscription. I've been using the betas and this final one for the last 6 months.

I upgraded my installshield express to 11 after the salesperson told me that .NET 2.0 would be supported when it came out.

I have an application I wrote for a client which I need to deploy and you still have not released anything. I remember when the 1.1 framework came out. Installshield supported this when it came out. I had to jump through some hoops for it to be recognized by the software, but I got it working.

The fact of the matter is that .NET 2.0 has been out for months in beta form and over a month in final form. You have not done anything to prepare--if you did it would be out.

I have several third party components. Infragistics made my 2.0 beta available 6 months ago. Vista DB did also. Active Reports did too. Its pretty sad when one of the most critical pieces, the installer, cannot prepare and keep up with a technology release that is so well publicized. All your installer does is attach to the redistributable. How hard could it possibly be to support a new redistributable package? You did this easily for .NET 1.1--why would 2.0 be any different? I guarantee companies like infragistics had an enormously larger task to get this done. Any excuse you make is unacceptable when you take a look around at the work all other software companeis have done to prepare for this.

I would love to put you on the phone with someone who spent $12,000 on development with a release date last week. You tell them I can't deploy because the installer is not ready yet. I built my promises on top of your companies when I purchased the upgrade. I spent a lot of money on this software and I'm left with broken promises and upset clients.

I'm a highly certified and experienced professional. I have a lot of developers I know. I will make sure every one of them knows about this situation you've put me in. Word of mouth goes a long way, especially when it's from a professional who many people go to for advice. Macrovision has pretty much blown the reputation of the installshield line in my opinion and I will not be buying any more of your products unless you are bought out by someone who has a clue how a software company should be ran.

Kenneth Moss
MCSD, MCAD, MCDBA, MCSA
CEO In A Box Software

MartinMarkevics
12-07-2005, 03:29 PM
Kenneth,

I'm sorry your feel that way. As I mentioned before, I speak from the perpsective of a developer at Macrovsion and I can assure you that we have in fact been preparing for the new .NET release for some time. The timing of the Profressional version was closely tied to the release of .NET 2.0 and the timing of the Express release will be soon thereafter. Keep in mind that there are a lot of considerations here other than simply updating the code (e.g. testing resources). If you (or anyone else for that matter) would like to discuss specific concerns about this further, I'd be happy to do that offline.

kurtbilde
12-08-2005, 01:45 PM
Martin, are we talking about a InstallShield 11 express sp 1 or a InstallShield 12 Express?

-Kurt

MartinMarkevics
12-13-2005, 02:05 PM
To my knowledge, .NET 2.0 support will only be in the next release (meaning Express 11.5).

ScottLambert
12-16-2005, 01:50 PM
Well, I for one feel badly burned. I bought Express in Oct. specifically for the 2.0 framework support which I needed for a project shipping Jan. 1. Sales never told me that it would _eventually_ be supported, nor was I told that the Express product was something of a step child with respect to their other products. I suppose it’s a joke on me since it installed Net 2003 and 2005 products; I assumed like an *** that it would work.

I called InstallShield today and talked to a nice man who promptly told me it was unsupported but I should speak with the Express guy. Of course he wasn’t available, but his voice mail informed me that he was at work, but he was busy and would get back to me, shortly. Well that was several hours ago, I suppose that this is just one more call he would rather not make. What are the odds that I will need to renew my support contract before he returns my call? Good news though, seems from this and other threads, all is not lost, I only have to wait a few months.

So in short I seem to be in the position of having to upgrade to the full product in order to get a feature that I was told by sales that it had. It’s a good thing that the EULA specifically says that they aren’t responsible for any claims merchantability.

Now it may seem that I am on a bit of rant, but I priced my product to include the purchase of the Express Edition, and now I will likely have to upgrade to the full version. This plays hob with my project costs. Not to mention that I will be paying for a lot of features I will never use, just to get the one feature I had thought I had already paid for. Sadly I don’t have the luxury of telling my client that he will have to wait, that I am working on it and oh by the way it may be ready in a few months.

Scott Lambert

MartinMarkevics
12-16-2005, 02:17 PM
Scott,

You should get a call back regardless of your support status. Not to make excuses, but it is the holiday season and lots of people do take time off around this time. I don't know if that's the case here, but I assure you that someone will get back to you.

With respect to the Express upgrade... I believe there is a policy that if you buy the product (within a certain period of time) before a new version comes out, you will get the upgrade free of charge. I don't know all of the details, but you can check on that when you do talk to someone from the sales team. This may or may not apply in your case, but make sure you ask about it.

With respect to the .NET 2.0 install... As it stands at this very moment, your options are either to get the Pro product, wait for Express 11.5 or even write your own bootstrapper to do this. I'd be the first to agree that none of these are probably what you are looking for at this time, but that's where we stand now. As I mentioned before, we are currently working on these and other enhancements for the Express 11.5 release.

NickAntonio
12-16-2005, 03:26 PM
When will the 11.5 Express version be released? I need .NET 2.0 and SQL Server 2005, and my 11 Express doesn't support them.

I need to know an approximate time of release to know if I should wait for 11.5 or switch to a different product.

Thanks,

Nick Antonio

MartinMarkevics
12-16-2005, 03:36 PM
It's scheduled for the early part of February.

I should note that, as with any release date this is subject to change. However, barring any unforseen future event, I think that's a pretty solid date.

djorgensen
12-20-2005, 02:28 AM
Ive been trying Installshield 11.5 using their trial with Visual Studio 2005. I jumped ships as it were from Wise. Trouble is i dont think i was wise to do it.

I've beent rying to get it the build an installation solution from a visual studio project (simple and complex projects, tried them all). The wizzard just stops and closes and tells me nothing.

The manual has dates at the bottom which i found nice. the bit about using the import from visual studio bit was written before beta 2 was out and reads like something for vs2003.


my problem with installshield is quote simple. if i wated to spend days writing some script and importing files id write my own installer and know exactly what im doing. instead id like a nice clean installer with a decent IDE that was clear and productive. you might have lots of features but you last clarity and a decent help file!



so i find it hard to believe that installshield have really done much work on this. it just looks like a markerting release as there is little value in it. it will be intrested to see what wise come up with at the end of the week, speaking to them today, they tell me they are releasing a version with vs2005 support.

Tailslide
02-09-2006, 07:00 PM
It's scheduled for the early part of February.

I should note that, as with any release date this is subject to change. However, barring any unforseen future event, I think that's a pretty solid date.

Is this still the case? My timeline requires me to start converting to a different installer if you are running into March.

MartinMarkevics
02-10-2006, 12:00 PM
I don't know the exact date right at the moment (I will find out), but I believe the RTM is today, which means it should be generally available in the next week or so.