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View Full Version : Thanks...$699 got me so many more errors for the money!



neal007
01-13-2005, 09:46 AM
So, I figured I'd upgrade from InstallShield X to 10.5 to see if it resolved one very minor installation issue, and just to keep up to date. So what did I get for my $699 upgrade:

-More Installation Errors
-No Technical support on a new product, most other places you get 30 days of technical support
-ISScript.msi upgrade errors (InstallScript MSI project) since it's using InstallScript 10.5 and it doesn't seem to upgrade the former version in a patch update / major upgrade
-Can't register Update Service versions, have to do it on the manager site directly now
-More frustration, less quality, kicking myself for upgrading and wasting more money when InstallShield X was actually a better product

bobcorrigan
01-13-2005, 04:24 PM
Neal,

Something sounds fishy with these issues - drop me a line and let's see if we can work them out, since I've not been seeing the sorts of problems you've reported here.

Bob

neal007
01-13-2005, 04:38 PM
Will do Bob! I've never had this much "bad luck" with an installation/update. My installers are extremely straight-forward, no CA's, etc. If someone shoots me an e-mail I'll gladly send my ISM file.

bobcorrigan
01-13-2005, 04:52 PM
The Update Server issue you mention has been reported and is being fixed - it's a hotfix candidate, depending on urgency.

But your other ones. . .gosh. . .

For the edification of folks reading this - while we no longer offer 30-day post-sales call-in support, we *do* read the Communities in search of bugs; Neal's issues fall under that category. Which is why I jumped. Ouch!

bob

neal007
01-13-2005, 05:00 PM
I'm the one saying "ouch" for chunking $699 out the window for essentially a "re-branded to Macrovision" InstallShield X that has really brought me more problems. I can't use MSI 3, I already regressed all my installations to NOT use it for the problems reported here. Now there are InstallScript upgrading issues, as in this post (http://community.installshield.com/showthread.php?t=143072). Can't upgrad ISScript.msi issues, never had those before.......

I have customers unable to install my product right now and I'm baffled as to why. I have other customers where the upgrade/patch isn't patching files, wasn't an issue with X.

Christopher Painter
01-14-2005, 09:57 PM
Other then the update service ( which I don't use ... SMS 2003 is my update service ) I don't see many concrete specific issues in your posts.

I can tell you I have dozens of installs that I maintain, and despite my better judgement ( 4 years as a CM Nazi ) I actually start using the latest version of IShield pretty much as soon as it comes out. In fact we just got AdminStudio 6/VP1 with 10.5 on Tuesday and we've already built and released a product to about 40 machines Guam.

We should have a sticky thread to announce gotcha alerts in new versions, but I have yet to find any in this release.

I wish the best for you and I hope your able to share with us specific problems you are having in 10.5.

neal007
01-14-2005, 10:06 PM
The issues have been brought to the attention, clearly, to the staff of IS 10.5 & support. One of which is a MSI 3 installation issue where the "instmsi30.exe" is getting placed "erroneously" on the system to when the installer tries to execute it, it is looking in the wrong place and reports not being able to find it. I think that's clear. For example: "File M:\Applications\instmsi30.exe not found"

ISScript has really been a problem and the only reason I use it is for the custom dialogs, otherwise I'd recommend against it and use Basic MSI. I cannot deliver a program that has the InstallScript engine set to download, been having problems with that since X. Now with the 10.5, it has problems upgrading the older ISScript engine's, plenty of KB hits on that.

I'm really looking forward to moving all my apps to .NET to really take this installation piece out of the equation. It's costing more in time and resources as time goes on. Installations are getting more difficult to succeed with, not the other way around. It's like Microsoft says "We'd like for computers to run faster then longer they are running instead of degrade..." I'd like installations to be more reliable, less complex, and not an application in themselves.

Christopher Painter
01-14-2005, 10:16 PM
I've been able to do all the dialogs I've needed with just Basic MSI dialogs. I try to keep my custom actions simple, and about half of my installs use InstallScript. The only problem I've ever had with ISScript.msi is the problem with DCOM launching permissions. With each release I repatch the MSI and move on.

I've purposely stayed away from MSI 3.0. I can get away with that though since I work in a managed environment where I can pretty much keep 3.0 off of my 17,000 clients.

I'm not sure .Net will ever truely make all installs XCOPY.

johnludlow
01-15-2005, 09:41 AM
I'm not sure .Net will ever truely make all installs XCOPY
It won't - the internet is littered with articles about why the ".net apps installed with xcopy!" statement is misleading, not to mention a couple of books I have. Technically, you can deploy a Win32 app with xcopy, under certain conditions. The problem is that those conditions can't be relied upon to be present. The same is true with .Net.

Christopher Painter
01-15-2005, 03:56 PM
I know that it won't. I was just trying to soften my opinion so that it didn't seem like I was jumping on Neal when he complained that he didn't want his setups to be applications within themselves.

johnludlow
01-17-2005, 06:31 AM
Ah, I see. Sorry.

Neal, I'm not trying to jump on you - Your point is valid. .NET does bring some features that you can use to make your installations simpler (the Installer class, for example), but installations are complex. The only way to properly deal with that complexity is to try and get your head round it (believe me, I know that this is easier said than done). That's why we've got someone (namely, yours truly) to specifically develop installations.